INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL MATESSINO AND NICK REDMAN 12th FEBRUARY 2000

When the soundtrack was originally slated for an August 99 release, me, Scott and Hiphats did an interview with both Mike Matessino and Nick Redman. We presented that on the 5th of July 99. You can read that interview here

This time I (GandalfDC) interviewed Mike, we specifically addressed the soundtrack. Hope you enjoy it!

1. In the original interview, you mentioned that there is evidence to suggest that John Williams recorded some alternate pieces which cannot be found. Can you elaborate further? What are the cues? And what is the evidence?

To answer this I have to explain a bit about what happens to these recordings. When all of the takes are put down on multi-track reels, the composer, mixer, and editor (in the case of SUPERMAN, Williams, Eric Tomlinson, and Bob Hathaway) give notes as to what takes they liked and what sections of each are the best. For example, let's say we have a cue number 165. They may record it five times, so on the scoring log it will appear like this: 165-1, 165-2, 165-3, etc.

Hypothetically, let's say the artists like measures 1-16 of take one, measures 17-78 of take four, measures 79-82 of take 2, and then measures 83-110 of take one again. This is indicated on the log and sometimes on the score itself. And then, takes 1, 2, and 4 -- in their entirety -- are spliced out and put on a separate reel. This reel is then mixed down and dubbed, and the music editor then assembles the cue based on the notes. The remnants of the mix-down are sometimes kept and sometimes tossed.
This procedure is followed for every cue, and the final result is called the "goody reel," a bit of parlance that can apply either to the edited takes or to the reel on which the selected raw takes were set aside, depending on what was kept and what was trashed at the end of production. What all this means is that any recorded takes which are not used AT ALL... never make it to the goody reel. This, of course, includes all "alternates." On STAR WARS (A NEW HOPE), we were fortunate that Lucasfilm still had 16-track reels with all the "goody" components missing, and this is how we found the alternate "Binary Sunset."

On SUPERMAN, we didn't even have the goody reels, which means that alternate bits of underscore are gone for ever. What we primarily used was the six track mix-downs used to actually create the final mix of the film. But according the scoring log (usually indicated by the note "revised"), there were alternate versions of music for the following scenes: the opening of the dome on Krypton, the toddler Clark lifting Pa Kent's truck, Clark's trek through the arctic, and the alley mugging scene. We were fortunate that we did find a 2-track reel of "trims and outs" which contained the original prologue & short march and the alternate "Planet Krypton." The alternate "Can You Read My Mind," strangely, was on the six-track final film stems as if they were to be used in the film, which tells me that this was changed at a very late date. I really wish producers would get into the habit of making an x-copy of the complete raw sessions and hold on to them, because you never know when there might be future interest in this stuff.

2. Which cues were hardest to put together and why?

Several cues were challenging. "The Big Rescue" had to be reconstructed from at least fifty little pieces because they made so many edits in the film that it actually runs a full minute shorter than the original composition. Fortunately, the six-track film units were assembled in a checkerboard of A, B, and C reels, and there were overlaps each time the music jumped from one to another. That made it possible to reconstruct the cue, but it took a bit of time. There were some cues where this was not the case, but fortunately we always had the album master available to fill in the holes. The alternate "Can You Read My Mind" was interesting because we had three tracks of orchestra, four tracks of synthesizer, and of course Margot Kidder's vocal track, but that turned out rather well, I think.

3.How useful was the album master?

Actually the album master was quite useful. As I've said previously we have learned to not underestimate its value, because the sound quality of pressed CD's can often belie the quality of the original album master. At the very least it is a useful indicator of how the mix and separation was intended. In the case of SUPERMAN, the album master sounded wonderful, so not only was it a helpful guide, but in some cases it sounded better than anything else. It also enabled us to reconstruct cues which were shortened for the film by carefully using pieces of the album master.

4.What are the differences between the written and the recorded score?

The differences are very few. The revised "Prelude and Main Title March" all appears as one unbroken cue on paper, but it was never recorded all the way through as one take. The revised main title was recorded weeks before the revised prelude. There is also some slight variation in the orchestration for "Growing Up," but changes are sometimes done during the actual sessions, and are never reflected on paper. We found this to be true on STAR WARS as well.

5.What were your initial impressions when you first heard the music? I.e. quality etc

This is a delicate thing to say, but when we first began this project we contacted Eric Tomlinson, and he related that there was a consensus that SUPERMAN was an inferior recording, at least compared to STAR WARS and THE FURY. When I was at Pinewood, the sound department guys seemed to concur. So when I finally heard the music elements, I bore this in mind. I was pleased to hear some of the unreleased music, but anxious to start working with it. To tell you the truth I think I was more focused on making sure we had the entire score in some form and didn't really focus on the quality until later. I knew that we'd have to incorporate bits of the album master and also use sections from the two-track "trims and outs" as well as the three-track reels used to create the television version, so I had my hands full with piecing it all together, in full reliance, as always, that Danny Hersch at DigiPrep would take all the various elements and make them work together.

6.Many readers don't know what six track is, so, what exactly is a 6 six track?

Well, imagine a one-hundred piece symphony orchestra and a full choir on a recording stage. How are you going to record them? In the case of these Williams scores with the London Symphony, they set up eighteen microphones around the stage, and an additional three over the conductor's podium. When they recorded, they used 24-track magnetic tape, with each microphone patched to its own discrete channel on the tape. And so the recording would take up twenty-one tracks. An additional two tracks would be reserved for things like synthesizer or vocal solos, and the last track would contain a synch pulse. This 24-track is then used to make what is called a "six-track mix-down." This involves determining two things for each of the 24-tracks:
1) how loud or soft it should be, and 2) where it should be in its left-right spread in the orchestra. So basically what happens is that the 24-tracks are "re-recorded" to 6-tracks, and what you end up with is six channels which are usually positioned as follows: Tracks 1-2-3 are hard left, center, and hard right, and tracks 4-5-6 are mid-left, center, and mid-right. This completes the left-right orchestral spread. The instruments which are most clearly audible on each track reflect their position in the orchestra. Six-track is an ideal medium to work in because you still have a good deal of control over the balance and spread of the orchestra, but it's not as unwieldy as a 24-track. The six-track is usually used to make subsequent mix-downs to 3-track, 2-track, and mono using the same procedure, but each mix-down degrades the quality and gives you less control. Not only can you control the balance and stereo spread in six-track, but you can do things like apply noise reduction just to one track if there is some age-related anomaly or damage, or isolate stage noise and pops. In a broader sense, the six-track gives you a more dynamic, punchier sound, and on SUPERMAN it was great to sample the six-track digitally and preserve its quality all the way through to the pressed discs.

7. How many people were involved in this project, and what were their roles?

Just talking about the music, and not the packaging, publicity, etc., it started with the transfer of all the material to digital tape at Chace Productions. The engineer was Rocky Rieger. Then I took these transfers and worked with them at Sharpline Arts, loading them into the Pro-Tools audio program. I then output my reconstruction onto digital tape. While all of this was going on Nick Redman concentrated on the financial and logistical details of the project, interfacing with Rhino, Warner Brothers, etc. Then we all converged at DigiPrep, where Dan Hersch loaded my re-construction into Sonic Solutions. He had previously transferred the original album master in as well, and so once he had all the elements, he then followed my outline of putting it all together and assembling the sequencing for the CD masters. Nick's evaluation of the music was always welcome and helpful, but he mostly trusted that between Danny and myself we'd get it all done properly. That's actually everybody who had any contact with the music. Of course there were several people in various capacities who contributed information and various kinds of assistance, and they are all acknowledged in the package. I am grateful to all of them for their support.

8. Did you have to make any tough decisions while remastering the soundtrack? I.E. Leaving out any other source music, ending the main title with the crash.

"Luthor's Luau" was the only piece of source music that we had in any kind of presentable form. As we were working from reels which were intended to synchronize with the film, everything else was fragmentary and did not appear in the theatrical version anyway. This included three fragments of radio music and a bit of church organ for a Smallville scene that obviously hasn't ever been shown. All together, that music must add up about 45 seconds, so it was never considered for inclusion. I really like the "Luau" cue, though. It's a lot of fun and I'm glad we found it. Coming where it does in the sequencing, it's a welcome little interlude, I think. I'm amazed that this was always neglected in speculations about the expanded score. It seems that most people thought it was some bit of stock music that was just stuck into the film. As it turns out, it's the only source music in the finished theatrical version of the picture that didn't exist previously.

In terms of ending the main title with the "concert crash," that became clear as soon as we heard it without it. Separated from the visuals, it seemed to leave one hanging musically. Retaining it seemed like a better beginning for an album. At the end of Disc One it is presented without it, and there we felt that the "hanging" feeling worked, since it would hopefully compel the listener to continue on to disc 2.

Another decision that went back and forth was how to sequence the various versions of "Can You Read My Mind." There didn't seem to be any way to satisfy everyone. Some people think the vocal version should be within the chronological sequence and the non-vocal version in the bonus section, and others think the opposite. We went back and forth on it, but when we discovered and decided to use the alternate pop version, we came up with the final sequencing. Actually the most difficult decision for me was the editorial re-creation of the film version of the "Main Title." I struggled with the fact that the arrangement everyone wanted did not exist in any raw form, and wondered if we were being contrary to John Williams' intentions by creating something else. But I came to agree that the film version was the most satisfying opening for the album, provided that all the alternates could also be available. I'm hoping that should satisfy everybody one way or the other.

9. Can you explain a little about the hardware and software used to produce the soundtrack?

At the risk of putting everybody and myself to sleep, here goes:
The six-track and three-track 35mm magnetic reels sent over for England were played on "mag-readers" which are tall machines with the reels mounted vertically. The engineer installs different "heads" depending on what configuration of reel is being used. It is listened to on a full mixing stage and they were transferred flat (no adjustments or equalizing) to 24-track tape as a safety copy. This is a large 3 inch reel that mounts horizontally on top of the 24-track machine. At the same time as the 24-track was being made, the music was also being recorded digitally on DA-88 tape. The stock used is actual a small Hi-8 video tape which when used as an audio format contains eight digital tracks. It was these DA-88's that were used to do all the restoration work.

At Sharpline, I loaded them from DA-88 into the "Pro-Tools" digital audio program. This is Mac-based software which is used extensively in the entertainment industry. When film soundtracks are prepared for presentation in Dolby Digital or DTS, Pro-Tools is often used.

When I was through with the reconstruction and mix, I output the music from Pro-Tools to professional DAT tape, and also to a DA-88 back-up. We then took the tapes down to Digi-Prep. There we load it into the computer again. Dan Hersch at DigiPrep uses Sonic Solutions, another Mac-based digital audio program which is comparable to Pro-Tools but more specialized to audio mastering. The album master was also loaded in, its source being quarter inch reels sent over from Warner Brothers Records. Dan has an array of sophisticated amplification and monitoring equipment that he uses during the mastering process. He spends a good amount of time equalizing the music for maximum clarity and noise reduction. When everything is mastered and sequenced, it is ultimately output to 1630 mastering cassettes, which are about the size of a 3/4" video tape. Before that though, we output to CD-R, DAT, or cassette so that we can listen to our work and then go back and make fixes. The final 1630 is sent to the record company and used as the manufacturing source. As you can see, once the mags were transferred to DA-88 digitally, we stayed digital all the way through.

10. Has John Williams got wind of the expanded soundtrack?

If he hasn't, then he will when a check shows up. Actually, I'm sure his agents are well aware of all the releases that have his name on it. Despite the appearance of his name as "producer" on his albums it is becoming increasingly apparent that all of his focus is on the composition and the performance of the orchestra. He seems to pay little attention to what happens to the music once the recording sessions are over.

11. Which soundtrack do you want to work on next? / And do you plan to do anymore MGM/Turner  soundtrack projects?*Hiphats

I really like working with Rhino and hope there are more projects in the future. We're sort of running out of these big sought-after scores, aren't we? I enjoy all the projects, large and small, so I'd happily work on more score albums. In the John Williams canon, I'd love to do an expanded and improved FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, which marked my first awareness of John Williams, and of course expanded scores from the INDIANA JONES films. That keeps coming up, and I hope it happens in the near future and that I am involved in it. In the meantime, I'm grateful for the fans that make these releases possible. Without them, think of what expanded CD's we would not have... SUPERMAN, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, E.T., RAIDERS, the STAR WARS Trilogy, POLTERGEIST, STAR TREK, etc., etc.! I'm thrilled to have been involved in several of these and I hope there are more to come.

I would like to thank Mike for all his help over the past 13 months.

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